Episode 75. US Security Priorities in Latin America

Episode Transcript:

Amb. McCarthy: [00:00:13] Welcome to a conversation in the American Academy of Diplomacy podcast series, The General and the Ambassador. Our podcasts bring together senior U.S. diplomats and senior U.S. defense officials in conversations on their work and partnership in carrying out U.S. national security policy. I'm Ambassador Deborah McCarthy, the producer and host. Today, we will talk about U.S. military and diplomatic engagement with the Western Hemisphere with a particular focus on Latin America. We are joined by Deputy Secretary of Defense Daniel Erikson and Ambassador Luis Arreaga. The General and the Ambassador is a production of the American Academy of Diplomacy. This podcast is sponsored by the Fletcher School Global Master of Arts Program. The program allows career executives to earn an executive master of leadership in global affairs in one year without leaving the workforce. Deputy Assistant Secretary Erikson. Ambassador Arreaga, welcome to the program. I would like to start with a biographical introduction for our listeners. Daniel Erikson is the Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for the Western Hemisphere at the U.S. Department of Defense. He is responsible for U.S. defense and security policy for the Western Hemisphere. Mr. Erikson's previous public service has included being special advisor to then-Vice President Joe Biden and senior advisor for Congressional and Intergovernmental Affairs, as well as Senior Advisor for Western Hemisphere Affairs at the Department of State. He has also held senior positions in the private sector, think tanks and academia. Ambassador Luis Arreaga served as a U.S. ambassador to the Republic of Guatemala from 2017 to 2020. Just prior, he was the principal deputy assistant Secretary of State for the Bureau of International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs.

Amb. McCarthy: [00:02:14] Ambassador Arreaga also served as a U.S. ambassador to Iceland, Deputy chief of Mission in Panama, Consul General in Vancouver and Director of the Executive Secretariat. His other overseas postings include Geneva, Spain, Peru, El Salvador and Honduras. In addition, and this is very important to those who serve today in our diplomatic ranks, he led a special recruitment effort at the State Department, which led to the largest increase in US diplomats in our country's history. Gentlemen, I thought we'd start by looking sort of at the bigger picture. That is the priority given to the Western Hemisphere in U.S. foreign policy, as reflected in the national security strategies issued by various administrations under President Obama. National security goals in the region included the promotion of democracy, economic integration, energy security, the defeat of regional terrorist organizations, and the reduction of the flow of drugs to the US. Under the Trump administration, the priorities for the region were similar, but the explicit additional goal of reducing illegal immigration was added in the recently issued national security strategy of the Biden administration. Us goals have expanded to include advancing health security, tackling climate change and addressing external threats, meaning the malign influence of Russia and China. You both have long experience in the region under different administrations. It has often been said that with the exception of Mexico and Canada, the region has not been a priority for the U.S. since 9/11, would you agree?

Amb. Arreaga: [00:03:57] First of all, let me express my gratitude for inviting me to participate in this conversation with my good friend Dan Erikson. You know, the assertion that the region is not a priority for the US has been around since I joined the Foreign Service in the 1980s and it was probably started before. I would also add that I've heard the same thing when I have served in other parts of the world. So from that perspective, I am not so sure that agreeing or disagreeing is going to help anything. But what I think is important is that we do have a policy that has been laid out by the government and that we have a professional set of officers in state, USAID, working very hard to advocate for those policies, to implement those policies. So I think the US is engaged. I think it is our job to hold them to account, but also to support them.

DASD Erikson: [00:04:55] Well, first, let me begin also by thanking you, Ambassador Deborah McCarthy, for the invitation to join you today. And it's great to be here with Ambassador Luis Arreaga. We've had a chance to work together in the past and really pleased to be part of this conversation. I agree with a lot of what Luis has said. This is a constant refrain from our partners in Latin America and the Caribbean, where they feel that they are not getting sufficient US attention. You do see a wide array of US officials traveling throughout the region on a near-constant basis. Many senior leaders from Latin America and the Caribbean come frequently to Washington, where they're received at very high levels. Of course, you have the very strong trade relationship, the important issues based on migration and cultural and family ties. So I think to some degree what you have is a situation that the region holds the United States to a higher standard because we are so close and because we do share this region of this world and share this neighborhood. The flip side, of course, is the times when Latin America has been the focus of intense attention from the United States. They frequently have not welcomed that and have preferred a slightly more hands off approach. Will we ever get this relationship to a perfect state of comedy? Probably not. But at the same time, this is clearly a very important region for us, and it's the only region of the world, the United States, that we live in.

Amb. McCarthy: [00:06:21] I wanted to turn to the issue of the role of the military in Latin America. From the period of the wars of independence to today, the military have played a significant role in political life in much of the region. The military coup in Brazil in 1964 launched a wave of military dictatorships, and military governments controlled 11 Latin American nations for significant periods until 1990. Since then, there have been other scattered examples of military interventions in the region, including in Venezuela, Honduras, Ecuador and Bolivia. Today. There are no military dictatorships per se, but there is a close relationship between several civilian governments in the region and their armed forces. We governments are often turning to the military to prop them up. So at least I wanted to start with you in Central America, where you served as ambassador. How are governments using the military to advance their political agendas and how does this affect U.S. interests?

Amb. Arreaga: [00:07:23] Well, you've identified a very interesting problem. I think you've explained how these militaries have had started relationships in the region, but fortunately, they're trying to leave that behind through adherence to the principles of civilian authority over them, which actually, I think have been the result of a lot of US military engagement in the region. Unfortunately, the military find themselves being used by governments as props to advance policies that could undermine democracy or even support corruption. Let me give you a couple of instances that come to mind. 2017 2018 President Jimmy Morales started to announce big decisions on television, and those decisions would be announced where he was surrounded by generals in uniform, police chiefs in uniform. That was an unfortunate thing to do because the message that they are sending with these acts to the public is, do you have a problem with what I'm doing? If you do, you have to deal with the guys behind me. And of course, that message is not lost on the population. Who remembers the military of all? So it's a manipulation of the images. The other example that was very clear and very well known is when President Bukele walked into the Salvadoran Congress surrounded by armed military officers as he wanted them to approve a budget for military equipment. So that is, I would say, is use of the military know, you don't want to suppress dissent. You don't want to intimidate. And what ends up happening is that these governments are empowered by these actions. I think this is something that we need to pay attention to. This is something that I believe the Department of Defense understands very well.

Amb. McCarthy: [00:09:14] Well, Dan, on this issue, how does our Department of Defense and our military work with their counterparts in the region to encourage them to be apolitical? For we've always emphasized the critical importance of civilian control of the military. But now we're seeing instances, as Luis is referring to, where they're being used for political purposes.

DASD Erikson: [00:09:36] Well, the role of the military in Latin America has really evolved over the past several decades. Now, virtually the majority of the countries in the region are under democratic civilian governments, and the militaries have been trained over the years and instilled with the values of respect for the Constitution, respect for democracy and for the will of the voter. And so that's been a very important sea change. Just this year, in the fall of 2022, US Southern Command, which is the US military command for managing military relations with Latin America, is commemorating the 25th anniversary of its human rights Initiative, and that was an initiative that was created in 1997 and really began this process of working with militaries in the region around these themes of democracy, respect for human rights and so forth. That doesn't mean that there's not still human rights issues in the region with respect to the military. They do exist. But I think there's been a lot of progress on that front. The challenge we see now is a little bit, as you alluded to, Deborah, the other side of the coin, which is in a situation where the militaries respect the authority of civilian governments and then civilian governments ask the militaries to undertake tasks that are beyond their traditional scope of national defense. How should they respond? And some of these tasks are relatively benign in nature. They may have to do with fomenting internal development or internal infrastructure. Some may press more into the political process, and that's where I really think the engagement that the US Department of Defense has at a senior level with the defense ministries and the armed forces of the region, is extremely important.

DASD Erikson: [00:11:22] I've had the fortune to work with two commanders of US Southern Command, Admiral Craig Faller, and then currently General Laura Richardson. I know that they are very firm in conveying their views about the importance of respect for democracy, human rights and rule of law. And that's an extremely important message In my position. The vantage point is a little different, but also, I think, interesting and somewhat unique in the region in that I'm a civilian appointee at the US Department of Defense, and in some countries I have counterparts. There are civilian senior officials in the. Streets of the fence, but in others there are not. In Guatemala, for example, it's largely uniformed service that manages that ministry. The same is true for Mexico and some other countries. And so by modeling the role of a civilian official managing defense issues in this region, that can be very important as well. And that extends additionally to countries such as Colombia, Argentina and others that do have civilian ministers of defense. And so I think you see a pretty wide degree of variation in terms of the role of the military, in terms of managing defense policy. In some cases, it's the uniformed services that are the defense ministers, in other cases, civilian officials. But I think the United States being able to engage both at that civilian level as well as through our military representatives, can send a really powerful message around these themes of respect for democracy and human rights.

Amb. McCarthy: [00:12:48] As the military in this hemisphere do not face external threats, there's not an external power threatening them. They have been asked to fight internal or regional threats such as local terrorist groups, criminal gangs, drug and human traffickers. But in these tasks, members of some of the militaries have committed human rights abuses for which few have been held accountable. Guatemala is an example of past and present abuse by the military. The Commission for Historical Clarification examined atrocities committed during the country's very long civil war, and when criminal cases are brought against some high level military officers, a group of veterans called the Avemilgua fought back. Later, the same group battle another institution that was investigating organized crime. So, Luis, if I can start with you, can you talk about the influence of the Guatemalan military on the country's political institutions and the role of this veterans group?

Amb. Arreaga: [00:13:54] Yes, I'm going to speak about the former military. So the Avemilgua is only one of a network of organizations composed of former military or their families. And I would say that most of them advocate for amnesty for the military, have condemned for committing crimes against humanity or who are being tried. And in fact, over the last few weeks, there is a case of Judge Miguel Angel Galvez, a highly respected jurist, who had the case of an individual who was accused of committing crimes against humanity. The moment he took that case and had him on preventive detention, he was the victim of a series of vicious attacks, not physical attacks, but the social media threats, public threats against him. And most of these came from this network of organizations. They launched lawsuits against him. They wanted him to lose his immunity. They were accusing him of misdeeds. And it got to the point that the judge had to leave the country. I want to make sure that it's clear. Is this the former military, not the current ones? And you're right, they're active in political issues. In fact, there was a group of them who supported the candidacy of Jimmy Morales. And when Jimmy Morales, one, they held high positions in the government. Some of them ended up being prosecuted for crimes against humanity or for corruption. But this is the one case where they got close to power and influence in that government. These groups are problematic because they tend to stand for conservative values and they tend to live in the world of the Cold War. For them, the Cold War is still on and in their view, anybody who doesn't agree with them is a communist or a socialist, and they're quite, quite, quite dangerous and irrational. It's a problem.

Amb. McCarthy: [00:15:57] But the Department of Defense and the Department of State in providing security assistance in the region and globally takes lots of steps to ensure that the assistance is conditioned and leveraged in proper ways to ensure that it is not misused and that those who receive it do not commit human rights abuses. So, Dan, if you could talk a little bit about how the Department of Defense goes about in this vein.

DASD Erikson: [00:16:23] Well, as you alluded to, the partnership between the Department of State and particularly our embassies on the ground and the Department of Defense is really critical on this question of ensuring that any equipment or security cooperation or training that's provided to partners in Latin America meets the highest standards when it comes to respect for human rights, eliminating or avoiding misuse of equipment, things of that nature. And we take our responsibilities really seriously in that regard. I think one challenge that we sometimes have as the Department of Defense is that our natural counterpart are the militaries in these countries. And sometimes the civilian authorities ask for the militaries to take on a larger role in internal security issues where they're working with the civilian police forces. And in many countries, the police forces are relatively weak. Institutions have far greater challenges with corruption, lack of training. And that's an issue that we need to monitor as well. The military's, of course, there are challenges that exist there, but in general, the armed forces in this region are stronger institutionally than the civilian police and law enforcement agencies. And so that's one fault line that we constantly need to patrol and stay on top of. That's why it's so important as well for the Department of Defense to benefit from the insight and analysis that's provided by human rights groups, non-governmental organizations, many of which have strong ties to the embassies in the various countries to help provide the sort of information analysis that can assist us in our decision making.

Amb. McCarthy: [00:18:12] And Luis, if I can add, though, because of your senior position in INL, providing assistance all throughout the hemisphere, including to police forces, you may want to comment on this.

Amb. Arreaga: [00:18:23] I agree with that. We have an excellent relationship. I can tell you a case in the midst of the U.S. crisis. This is the International Commission against impunity and Corruption in guatemala. The Guatemalan government misused J8 vehicles donated by the Department of Defense for the exclusive use around the border area. So they took these vehicles, they mounted machine guns, took them downtown, parking in front of CC. Then they paraded them in front of the embassy. The first thing that we did is can we look at that agreement to see if this is appropriate use of the vehicles? Of course it's not. So after some back and forth, the Department of Defense backed us completely and put a pause on the assistance until proper mechanisms were established. This is an area where we work very closely because I had come from INL on the vehicles where actually part of this joint task forces that had military and civilian police components, because the civilian police have the authorities to arrest people. But the military had the tactical capabilities to operate in the border areas. This sort of partnership works very well.

Amb. McCarthy: [00:19:39] Well, the military in the region are also being asked to take on a wide range of civilian activities, ranging from overseeing COVID 19 testing and vaccination operations to responding to natural disasters, which the region is increasingly prone to with climate change. Dan, if I could start with you. Can you give us some examples of how the Department of Defense works with militaries in the region on humanitarian relief and rescue operations?

DASD Erikson: [00:20:08] Absolutely. I would say at the outset, the Biden administration and Secretary Austin and the Department of Defense have identified climate change and the impacts on climate change, on US national defense and on our defense partners as a key priority. And so this is an area where we have very active dialogue with virtually every country in the region, especially in some cases, those closer by us, such as the Caribbean or Central America, that tend to be more impacted by powerful hurricanes, by floods, even by drought in some cases. And we see the pressure that that's putting on the armed forces in the region in terms of both their training needs, but also the governments asking them to respond and assist, particularly when there's a natural disaster that requires a humanitarian response. And so the US military does a number of training exercises with countries throughout the region on this issue. We also, if there's a need to respond to a natural disaster, work very closely in partnership with the US Agency for International Development as well as the State Department and our system, it's actually USAID that is the lead federal agency for responding to natural disasters. And so the role of DOD is really to step in where we were asked to to provide unique logistic or organizational capabilities that are required and additionally to work with other partners in the region, including partner militaries that may make contributions. One recent example that occurred since I've been in this position, although not climate related, but still relevant to the discussion, was the August 2021 earthquake in Haiti, which severely impacted the southern core of Haiti, caused loss of life damage to property, and USAID very quickly stepped into a leadership role with DOD and US Southern Command and support role and working with a range of partners from across Latin America as well that were donating vital supplies, providing medical care and things of this nature to contribute. And so I think that this area of humanitarian assistance and disaster response, both climate related and non climate related, is a real core strength of US military engagement with this region and one that's very much welcomed by our partners.

Amb. Arreaga: [00:22:33] In my career in the Foreign Service, some of the proudest moments came about when there was a natural disaster and you will see the deployment of the USAID DART teams immediately. Then there will be the deployment of the US military. They were actually saving lives and people will say, you know, only the Americans do this. Nobody else provides this kind of support and assistance as quickly and as effectively as the Americans. And it's a testament to the excellent working relationship between the Department of Defense, between USAID and the Department of State. And I've been to a few disasters myself volcano eruptions, earthquakes. And it's always the same story. And this is sort of the kind of story that the American people should really know more about because they will be very proud of how we respond selflessly and effectively.

Amb. McCarthy: [00:23:25] I wanted to turn now a little bit into the importance of some key meetings that gather leaders in the region. We have the Conference of Defense, Ministers of the Americas, and we have the Summit of the Americas. Defense Secretary Austin attended the most recent defense conference, and President Biden hosted the summit in Los Angeles. Dan, you went with Secretary Austin to Brasilia. Can you describe the dynamics of the meeting and the challenges faced by the U.S. team to advance its objectives?

DASD Erikson: [00:23:56] It was a very busy summer for us because, as you mentioned, there was some of the Americas that President Biden convened in Los Angeles with heads of state. I was fortunate to be able to attend that as a representative for DOD. And then shortly thereafter, in July, there was the Conference of Defense Ministers of the Americas. For your listeners who may not be familiar with this meeting, this is a once every two year gathering of all of the defense ministers across the Americas who respect democracy and human rights. So it's not a fully inclusive meeting. And indeed, there were a number of countries that did not attend the Conference of Defense Ministers of the Americas, such as Cuba, Nicaragua, the regime in Venezuela. And so forth. The 2022 Conference of Defense Ministers of the Americas was hosted by the Brazilian government. The administration of President Bolsonaro and his defense minister were the host. It was in the weeks leading up to Brazil's presidential election, where there were some concerns at the time that the Brazilian military may seek to step outside its constitutional boundaries. And one of the messages Secretary Austin brought was the importance of respecting the democratic process and the electoral process in the country. So there's some unique, I think, bilateral components to it.

DASD Erikson: [00:25:19] But in addition, it was the first in-person meeting of the Defense Ministers of the Americas in four years. The last previous in-person meeting was in 2018, and then of course in 2020, COVID was very much able to prevent meeting anyplace in person. So there was a virtual meeting hosted by Chile. But as we all know, that's not quite the same. And of course there had been a lot of turnover in governments between 2018 and 2022, including our own government in the United States. And so this really provided an opportunity to refresh the connections of the defence ministers from across the Americas to address some real areas of priority, which included not just traditional defense themes that we've been discussing, but also themes such as the need to increase our capacity for cyber defense and dealing with cyber challenges within peace and security as well, was a theme embraced by the conference. And then also to really look at the core issues such as professionalization of the armed forces, how we can increase training and exercises as well. And also at the conference, Secretary Lloyd Austin announced that the US naval ship Comfort would be traveling through the region. So it was a very productive meeting, not surprisingly, really much less political meeting than the Sum of the Americas, because the key participants are defense ministers, not presidents. I think it was a really constructive conversation and one that the United States continues to benefit from.

Amb. McCarthy: [00:26:53] Well, Luis, the Department of State takes the lead on the Summit of the Americas and actually sets up a whole office for each summit. What is the value of the summit in terms of U.S. national security objectives? And has the U.S. influence in that summit changed over time?

Amb. Arreaga: [00:27:11] There's enormous value in bringing together the heads of states from the region to discuss the hemispheres, share agenda face to face, and even more important, if we have differences of opinion. Unfortunately, over time, for mostly political reasons, the summit has lost its allure and some governments have used their participation or lack thereof, as a vehicle to make political statements to the end of the much needed discussions that we should have as members of the same hemisphere. We saw that in Los Angeles this year. The Summit of the Americas is a mechanism that needs to be restored to its original purpose. It will require work from all the countries of the region, and I'm not sure how we're going to do that, but of course, we will do our share. There's an enormous amount of work that went into it, and this is planned for years in advance. The US did not participate, I believe, in the last one under the previous administration, and that sends not the right signal that sends that we're not really interested or care about this gathering. Hopefully we can restore it in the future.

Amb. McCarthy: [00:28:27] Well, I wanted to move to our relationship with the region in terms of our global national security priorities. Hemispheric support for U.S. military engagement in Iraq and Afghanistan was limited. Fast forward to today. In the era of global power competition, the region is once again seeking to avoid taking sides. Although most Latin American governments voted in favor of UN General Assembly resolutions condemning Russia's invasion of Ukraine, two key allies, Mexico and Brazil, abstained from another resolution suspending Russia from the U.N. Human Rights Council. China has significantly expanded its ties with the region and is South America's top trading partner. Most countries in the region recognize China's claim to Taiwan, and a number are part of China's Belt and Road Initiative. Can you each address the region's reluctance to be involved in big power politics in terms of our global interests?

DASD Erikson: [00:29:30] I think that it's no surprise that the countries of Latin America and the Caribbean, when they look at their top priorities in terms of. Security and defense. It's very much local. They're focused on internal security, good relations with their neighbors, for the most part, good relations with the United States. Now, that's not a completely uniform across the region. I would note that the current president of Guatemala, Alejandro Giammattei, actually went to Ukraine and visited with President Zelensky there, and he was the first Latin American leader to do so. And we have seen a number of countries offer moral support or diplomatic support to Ukraine who have condemned as well Russia's actions. And so I think that countries are following these events closely. They also, frankly, are very impacted by global events, whether or not they wish to be involved with the Russian invasion of Ukraine. You've seen an increase in fuel prices and global food prices, which has had a big impact on Latin America as well. China, I think, is viewed differently as, you know, China is an important economic partner for the majority of countries in Latin America, where they see China as a country they can trade with perhaps benefit from some investment from as well. The message that we send is that countries need to really weigh carefully the benefits and drawbacks of engaging with China and also need to prioritize the protection of their national security infrastructure and defense institutions and defense systems.

DASD Erikson: [00:31:03] Today, while China has expressed some interest in the region, for the most part, the United States really remains the dominant defense partner of most of the countries in Latin America and the Caribbean. And I expect that to remain true for many years to come, in part because there's such a rich history of training and education that's taking place between the military of Latin America and the United States. There's obviously the proximity as well, and that we have regular opportunities to work together on shared challenges, whether that's humanitarian assistance and disaster response or partnering on other security issues in the region. The US military position in Latin America is not something I believe we can take for granted. It's very important that we continue working on it and building on those relations. That's why Secretary Austin very recently hosted the new Minister of Defense of Colombia, who took office recently as part of the administration of Gustavo Petro, because we want to maintain these positive ties with Colombia, even with a new government there that may have a different ideological orientation than those that we've worked with successfully previously.

Amb. Arreaga: [00:32:13] I actually agree with that. But I think there may be other factors that impinge upon their reluctance to get involved. One of them is their own experiences with proxy conflicts in the 1980s, where there were some internal wars that created quite a bit of death and destruction. So they were in the middle of two big powers and they might think that perhaps this is not something that is in their own interest. And the other one is there's also a certain desire by countries to assert their independence from the United States. And given our own history, our relations with them, they want to be their own person. And this gives them an easy decision where doesn't have a whole lot of consequences for them. And so it's easier for them to stay out of it than to get involved.

Amb. McCarthy: [00:33:04] Well, I wanted to ask one last question about the newest threats in the region, and that is cyber. Latin America is increasingly the subject of cybercrime. According to Interpol, in the first half of 2020, Latin America recorded the world's highest cyber attack rates. Recently in 2022, Costa Rica saw all of its governments institutions paralyzed by major attack coming out of Russia. In theory, cyber diplomacy is led by the Department of State. However, until recently, only a small team was dedicated to the issue. Under the Biden administration, a full bureau has finally been established. In the meantime, the Department of Defense has been regularly working with allies and partners in the region on cyber security. Can you each talk a bit about these efforts to strengthen cybersecurity awareness and resilience in the region?

DASD Erikson: [00:33:59] Thank you for raising it. So this issue of cybersecurity and cyber defense is so important and it's really a critical issue to many of the governments in Latin America and the Caribbean. Countries are recognizing the priority of it, but there's still in the process of building the tools and the policy frameworks to really deal with cybersecurity effectively. Additionally, in Latin America, which is similar to the United States, the responsibility for cyber defense is distributed across a number of different agencies. Often, the defense ministries are being leaned on heavily by the civilian ministries, either because they have greater cyber capability or just out of pure hope that they'll be able to help governments respond effectively. And we've seen over the course of 2022 that in fact, defense ministries in various countries have been the targets of very focused cyber attacks. One thing that we've been doing in my office of Western Hemisphere Affairs at the Department of Defense is integrating cyber security and cyber defense into the defense dialogues that we do with various countries. And I have a counterpart here at DOD who's the deputy Assistant of Defense for cyber, and I frequently ask either her or members of her team to meet with our foreign government counterparts when they come up to Washington for briefings on cyber issues. And also there's a lot of training that's being done via the Perry Center, which is a regional study center that's affiliated with the Department of Defense that offers cyber trainings and courses on cybersecurity as well. Lastly, the Conference of Defense Ministers of the Americas has a working group on cyber issues, has been active for several years now and has been chaired by Colombia. And so we've been engaging at the multilateral level through the Conference of Defense Ministers of the Americas in partnership with the Government of Colombia and other governments on this issue.

Amb. Arreaga: [00:36:00] I can comment on one particular issue, which I think people will understand, and there is now a telecommunications is moving into the 5G technology, very deep concern that they were going for the lower priced Chinese made infrastructure starting in the previous administration. We went to try to convince the authorities, regulatory authorities, the telecommunications companies to move away from Huawei products and to consider some of the European made, some of the Korean made infrastructure, which was safer and more secure. This is an effort that I believe still ongoing but do have a real impact on communications and safety and the security of those communications. Same thing with some of the ministries. Some of the law enforcement agencies were buying Chinese made computers or radio equipment, which of course, we work very hard to prevent from happening. That's something that I experience and work on quite a bit in my last posting.

Amb. McCarthy: [00:37:05] Thank you. Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense Erikson. Thank you, Ambassador Arreaga, for sharing with us some key elements of our diplomatic and military engagement in a region that is so important to the United States. Your experience in the region is extremely valuable, and we hope our listeners will learn a lot from this particular podcast. So thank you very much.

DASD Erikson: [00:37:27] Thank you. It's been a pleasure.

Amb. Arreaga: [00:37:29] My pleasure.

Amb. McCarthy: [00:37:30] This has been a new episode in the series The General and the Ambassador. This series is a production of the American Academy of Diplomacy. This podcast was produced with the support of the Fletcher School Global Master of Arts Program. The program is for career executives to earn an executive master of leadership in global affairs in one year without leaving the workforce. You can find the General and Ambassador podcast on all major podcast sites as well as on our website: GeneralAmbassadorPodcast.org . We welcome all input and suggestions and you can email us directly at General.Ambassador.podcast @gmail.com. Thank you very much for listening.