Episode 77. The National Guard & US National Security - The Partnership Program between Mississippi and Uzbekistan

Episode Transcript:

Amb. McCarthy: [00:00:12] Welcome to a conversation in the American Academy of Diplomacy Podcast series, The General and the Ambassador. Our podcast brings together senior US diplomats and senior US defense officials in conversations about their work together overseas in advancing US national security interests. I'm Ambassador Deborah McCarthy, the producer and host. Today, we will discuss Uzbekistan and its partnership with the Mississippi National Guard. Our guests are Major General Jenson Boyles, the adjutant general of the Mississippi National Guard, and Ambassador Pamela Spratlen, the former US ambassador to Uzbekistan. The General and the Ambassador is a production of the American Academy of Diplomacy. This podcast has been sponsored by the Fletcher School Global Master of Arts Program. This program allows career executives to earn a master of leadership in global affairs in one year without leaving the workforce. Let me start with a brief biographic introduction of our guest today, Major General Boyles has been the adjutant general of Mississippi since 2016. He serves as the commanding general of both the Mississippi Army and Air National Guard. In his career, he has also served as the deputy commander of the 168th Engineer Group, which managed the engineer response to Hurricane Katrina. He's also deployed to Afghanistan in support of Operation Enduring Freedom and served as chief of staff headquarters. Kosovo Forces. Ambassador Spratlen served as a US Ambassador to Uzbekistan from 2015 to 2018. Her experience in Central Asia is deep, as she also served as a US ambassador to Kyrgyzstan, the deputy chief of mission in Kazakhstan and the country director for Central Asia.

Amb. McCarthy: [00:01:58] Her other senior assignments include Senior Advisor in the Office of the Inspector General, Director of Western European Affairs and most recently, Senior advisor, coordinating efforts to address the Havana syndrome affecting US diplomats. General Boyles, Ambassador Spratlen, welcome to the program. I'm especially excited about this podcast as we are way overdue in this series. In explaining the vital role of the US National Guard in advancing our foreign policy and security interests overseas. For our listeners, I will explain a little background on this issue. The National Guard is an integral part of our military that responds to state level emergencies and serves on missions overseas. There are an estimated 450,000 Guard members. The Guard has been deployed in many theaters, including Afghanistan and through a special program, the state Partnership Program. The National Guard also regularly deploys for short periods in specific countries. The program began in 1993 to help the countries in the Baltics when they emerged from being under the Soviet Union and wanted to build their own military. I served as a US ambassador to Lithuania, which recently celebrated the 29th anniversary of their program with the Pennsylvania National Guard. Today, the SPP program includes 95 countries from Bangladesh to Kenya to Peru. The program with Uzbekistan, which we will discuss, started in 2012. So, General Boyles, if I can start with you, can you walk us through the basic responsibilities of the National Guard, who they report to and also who they are?

Gen. Boyles: [00:03:38] I'll just start with explaining that the general population is familiar with our active duty brothers, our Title ten brothers, who are financed through the Title ten statutes for the federal government. The National Guard works alongside active duty, but we're funded by a different stream, Title 32, that allows us to respond to domestic opportunities like hurricanes, tornadoes, wildfires in the West, individual responses in the mountains, all of those things that we do domestically. We provide for security sometimes along our border. We do things in the Washington, D.C., and other cities where we we help provide security. And we do all that under Title 32. The Guard is probably about a third of our members are active or full time guardsmen, and they run the National Guard on a daily basis. But the other two thirds are people who live in our communities policemen, firemen, electricians, plumbers, doctors, nurses, business owners. They put on the uniform when called to duty. Well, that changed about 20 years ago when the military looked around and realized that they needed more numbers to respond to two threats, Iraq and Afghanistan. And so the guard was called to active duty. And so for the past 20 years, we have been playing a dual role, and that is deploying for overseas active duty missions and then being prepared to respond to any domestic missions also. But because we bring those men and women from the communities to bear to put on the uniform, they bring skill sets with them that the active duty doesn't always have. And so when we travel overseas to deploy into Iraq or Afghanistan, we bring electrical skills, plumbing skills with us where we can do some things that maybe the active duty component doesn't have. The same thing applies to the partnership program. We bring in medical skills. We bring in maintenance skills to help our partner countries to learn how we do things in the military.

Amb. McCarthy: [00:05:36] Well, I wanted to explain a little bit for our listeners. The country that you both worked in and on Uzbekistan is a landlocked country of 34 million, which shares borders with four other Central Asian countries as well as Afghanistan. It is the world's seventh largest producer of cotton and supplier of uranium. It also has natural gas and gold mines from its independence from the Soviet Union in 1991, all the way to 2016, it was ruled by one man, President Islam Karimov, who established a repressive authority regime widely criticized for its human rights abuses, including the use of forced labor in cotton fields. Over the years of this regime, the relationship with the US was a mixed but necessary one, as Uzbekistan served as a transit point for supplies to and from US and allied operations in Afghanistan through what was called the Northern Distribution Network. So let me ask you, Ambassador Spratlen, what were the circumstances that allowed the SPP program with Mississippi to be launched in 2012? For I understand it, for years there have been congressional restrictions on assistance to Uzbekistan. So what changed?

Amb. Spratlen: [00:06:53] Let me just add a little bit of context for this. In general, after the collapse of the USSR, the United States set up an embassy in Tashkent and the bilateral relationship actually got off to a pretty solid start. The Uzbeks established a constitution and a government that we hoped would lead to a democracy. They began welcoming US firms like General Motors and the Boeing Corporation. We established a military base, ultimately this with the permission of President Karimov. In addition, there were a number of US programs like the Peace Corps, and then that all started changing during the period of the so called, quote unquote, color revolutions for democracy in the early 1990s in Ukraine, Georgia, a tightening set in as Uzbekistan's president worried that a similar wave could reach his country. Things worsened and cooperation came to a virtual halt in 2005 over criticism of the government's crackdown on a protest in a regional city called Andijan. Many programs had to leave on the US side and mutual suspicions grew. Congress and the executive branch placed restrictions on US government cooperation with Uzbekistan. In reaction, the Uzbek government adopted policies of austere self-reliance and tightened any internal criticism further severely restricting American engagement in the country. So you can see that the environment was actually quite challenging. I would say that the main point of joint interest was that Uzbekistan and the countries of Central Asia and the United States, no matter what the circumstances inside Uzbekistan, shared a concern about the stability of the region as a whole based on the instability in Afghanistan. Uzbekistan wanted to show itself and its neighbors, especially the Russians, that it could provide for its own security. But it needed help in building that capability as its own military was built on the Soviet model. So we had something unique to offer. And so it seemed like a good place to begin rebuilding engagement when trust was thin, to use the state partnership program.

Gen. Boyles: [00:08:53] The way that the states receive a partnership, National Guard Bureau in Washington will make the decision who is that partner, And we compete for that opportunity. You know, I think we had a shared interest in agriculture with Uzbekistan when we applied for that country. I think there was some interest because we were actually deploying through Uzbekistan as early as 2003 into Afghanistan with a lot of our National Guard members. So there was familiarity. Mississippi applied for and won that competition. Someone in Washington must have read their history books and saying that Uzbekistan was a big cotton producer just like Mississippi was. I think once we had the partnership at that point, we started learning more about the country and how we could engage what their needs were so that we could deliver a good product for the ambassador, for the US government to Uzbekistan.

Amb. Spratlen: [00:09:55] And I think it actually was a very good pairing. I was hoping to talk to Ambassador Vakhabov today, the Uzbek ambassador to the United States, because I know he was just in Mississippi celebrating the ten year anniversary of the partnership.

Gen. Boyles: [00:10:06] Uzbekistan had an earlier partner in Louisiana and Louisiana also had a partnership with. Right after 2010, things where they had a big earthquake in Haiti and Louisiana had to shift their focus 100% to that relationship. Maybe because Mississippi was next door to Louisiana and they thought there would be some interaction between the two states that might have helped in that case.

Amb. McCarthy: [00:10:28] Well, I wanted to dive in a little bit more on how in terms of carrying out our foreign policy, there are trade offs and we have to balance a number of things. I mentioned that there was a lot of criticism of the regime that lasted until 2016 in terms of its human rights records. In November 2015, then-Secretary of State Kerry came to Uzbekistan to meet with President Karimov, as well as with representatives of all Central Asian states under a new US diplomatic initiative called the Cf ive plus one. There were a number of articles about the meeting that he was going to have, that is, with President Karimov speculating on whether the secretary was going to talk about the human rights problems in the country. Ambassador Spratlen, you were at that meeting. What were the dynamics and what did the discussion focus on?

Amb. Spratlen: [00:11:20] I want to give a big shout out even now lo these many years later, to Secretary Kerry, who's a marvelous diplomat and the gesture of coming to Uzbekistan in a period that was not easy was extremely important. He was able to talk about the issues that were important to us, understanding that at the time, President Karimov was one of the most isolated and controversial of the world's leaders. He believed that the United States was misguided in its approach to Uzbekistan and Afghanistan in particular. He believed the United States was not taking the right actions in Afghanistan and that the situation there was much more difficult than the United States was suggesting. So the meeting was not easy. But what's important about it is that Secretary Kerry was there and it broke the ice and allowed a different level of cooperation to unfold.

Amb. McCarthy: [00:12:12] Well, a follow on I want to ask you, Ambassador Spratlen, about the purpose of the C five plus one, which is continued to this day. What does it bring to the United States?

Amb. Spratlen: [00:12:23] The region of Central Asia is a fascinating one. All five of the countries were once part of the former Soviet Union. But because of all of the needs and desires, goals and visions of the individual nations and their leaders, it has been difficult to come up with an agenda for cooperation. But if the countries were able to get together and find common areas, the security and prosperity of the region as a whole could be much, much greater. How could we, using our convening power and using the reputation of the United States, help them come together? That was the purpose of the C five plus one then and I just attended an event this week at the US Institute of Peace that showed that we are still very interested in supporting that effort now.

Amb. McCarthy: [00:13:11] President Karimov died in September 2016, the same month. General, you became adjutant general. The new president, President Shavkat Mirziyoyev began a reform program to modernize and liberalize the economy, ease political repression and re-engage with the international community. This eventually led to a visit to the US with President Trump in 2018, but concerns remained about human rights and political freedoms in the country. Ambassador, what did the change of administration on the Uzbek side mean for the bilateral relationship?

Amb. Spratlen: [00:13:46] Yes, there was a change in leadership that took place in 2016. As you mentioned, and it was a watershed moment for Uzbekistan and really the region as a whole. I did have a hope for a reset of the table, so to speak, for diplomatic engagement over time. Now, there were many who thought that Uzbekistan would not change, but I thought we should wait and see. There were several different things that happened that gave me a sense that Mirziyoyev was somebody who wanted to make a changes within what his system would permit. One of the things I was able to do was to persuade our undersecretary for political affairs, Tom Shannon, to come out, which he did. And I think that was great in terms of shifting the mood and making a different kind of conversation possible, understanding that we still had some very, very difficult issues ahead. The second was President Mirziyoyev said in his first speech that his priority would be on foreign policy to work with his neighbors and improving relations. That was enormous after so many years of conflict in the region. And then with respect to human rights, he was willing to take on some of the issues that had been so difficult for so many years. And one of those was the cotton harvest. And over the time that I was there, some changes took place. We began to see some of the activists who had been imprisoned, released. We saw an easing in the willingness to engage with US partners. And so I think those were the kinds of things that made it possible for the administration to welcome President Mirziyoyev in 2018 to the United States.

Amb. McCarthy: [00:15:18] General, I wanted to turn to you and ask you about your first visit to Uzbekistan and what were your impressions of their military.

Gen. Boyles: [00:15:26] I'm going to start with this, if I may. Your listeners and of course, both of you know that we work under this acronym called DIME, you know, diplomatic, informational, military and economic power. And we are that military piece of that. So there are things that are going on around me that I try to enable. And the diplomatic piece is one of it. But I don't own that necessarily. So I do own the military piece specifically, and I work closely with CENTCOM to deliver sharing opportunities to the Uzbekistan military. I will tell you, our first impression was it was very rigid. It was very structural. The US military that we are used to empowers decision makers at the lowest level. Our squad leaders, our soldiers, all of our individuals. And in the Soviet model, you just don't see that as much. And so that was probably the biggest impression stood out at me is that we have a little work to do to show them how we empower decision makers at the lowest level.

Amb. McCarthy: [00:16:28] And during your time together from 2016 to 2018, how did you work to determine what activities the Guard would engage in?

Gen. Boyles: [00:16:39] Usually the host country will make a request as to what type of help that they want. We also offer some opportunities that they may not be aware that we can provide, and we work together through the embassy and with CENTCOM what they are interested in delivering to the country. That can include medical support, that could include maintenance support on American equipment that we've provided for them. But I think back to my earlier comment, I think the most important thing we can provide them is leadership support. We've worked very closely over the past five years. I know that General Collins, my predecessor, did the same of showing them how America or how the United States military operates. I think that in itself gives them the opportunity to step back, look at themselves, compare how we do business versus what they're used to, and make some changes if they choose to do that. We provide them that example.

Amb. Spratlen: [00:17:34] I would agree with all of that, General. You brought some very special skills. You just talked about the leadership part of this. Uzbekistan was able to be received as a country that was trying to make some serious changes. They were prepared to listen to a different way of doing things. And for me, just having that partnership was extremely important because there were not that many places where we could have a much more normal conversation between two different countries that had something to share. And that state partnership afforded both the United States and Uzbekistan that opportunity. So I attended the diplomatic events. I saw the gift exchanges. I saw the rapport build between the military leadership that you brought and the military leadership in Uzbekistan. Some of the events that you had, some of the competitions that you engaged in, I think all of that eased tensions and really did help build a partnership. And that's a large part of what was important about the Mississippi National Guard and what it brought and why. I think it's been so much appreciated over the many years of the partnership, the ten years of the partnership.

Gen. Boyles: [00:18:43] The Ambassador makes a great point. This is not just Mississippi going to Uzbekistan. It's also Uzbekistan coming to Mississippi and competing in individual warrior competitions that we put on within the military. We have a best warrior competition. We've been inviting the Uzbekistan soldiers now for probably four years. Ambassador And they've won every one of them in Mississippi. So we've got to figure out how to beat them in our own backyard. But that does help build trust and relationship. The other part of it is they have a very seasoned special forces activities and they come in and train with us in our big special forces event that we put on every year. That's a joint event in Mississippi. So we're building it that way. And Ambassador, I've got I've sort of got an advantage and she knows this in that I have an assistant adjutant general, army, a two star general who is a congressman. I think the Uzbekistan leadership and the ambassador saw that that gave us a different relationship with respect to Stan than most states would have, because that gives them access into Washington, D.C., through another means. And so that friendship has developed and really blossomed through our congressman. And so a lot of times I will have a military line of effort, and then he will work with the State Department through his congressional line of effort that's brought the whole relationship together.

Amb. Spratlen: [00:20:13] The General's referring to Congressman Trent Kelly, who I think is one of the people who was instrumental in actually establishing an Uzbekistan caucus. So while for many, many years, Uzbekistan really couldn't get a buy in the US Congress because of all the criticism, mainly from civil society about its human rights record, the human rights record is was I think it's improved a great deal now, but there really wasn't a conversation with the US Congress that was positive. And I do think that Congressman Kelly has done that.

Gen. Boyles: [00:20:43] I will tell you on my first trip there, just to characterize it in a picture for you, I think we were at a restaurant and they had TVs on the walls. And believe it or not, MTV was playing on those TVs. And the translator who was with us for that trip pointed to the TV and explained to me that a year earlier, the population of Uzbekistan was not watching MTV And so I think that's a picture of the kind of change that's happening there. The Ambassador mentioned the private sector. I know that there are some private businessmen from Mississippi. On their own initiative or in Uzbekistan showing different techniques and efficiencies in farming for farmers in Uzbekistan to use. And then we also introduced the Minister of Agriculture to our commissioner of Agriculture. And at one point before, I think the Beckstein Minister moved on, they had each other's cell phone. That's the level of connectivity we're trying to create. And then Mississippi State University, which is our land grant institution, has a relationship with Uzbekistan, both on the academic teaching side, but they're also communicating through other entities with Uzbekistan to help them improve maybe the resiliency of the seats that they use or the way they can better grow their agricultural crops.

Amb. Spratlen: [00:22:10] I think what's important about all of that is that it shows that while a state partnership is very limited in its writ and mandate, it has a very specific mission that is set out for it by the Department of Defense and by the laws of our country. And yet, because it is about relationships, it's about building relationships, it begins to have an effect in areas beyond the security area.

Gen. Boyles: [00:22:35] I would simply describe it as the military piece is the cornerstone. I believe that in order for the military relationship to be stronger and for the embassy's work in country to be stronger, if I can bring other elements of power to the conversation, everybody has a better relationship.

Amb. Spratlen: [00:22:56] I'd also like to just note that one of the underlying themes in all of this has really been maintaining a stable region. The United States has been a supporter of the sovereignty and the stability of these countries from the very beginning, and I think it was after the pullout from Afghanistan, that question started to arise about is the United States going to continue in this region? Will partnerships like the one that was established with the state of Mississippi continue having that partnership? And the fact that it's now ten years old is one of the things that provides the kind of stability that we need at a time of change.

Amb. McCarthy: [00:23:33] I want to thank you very, very much for outlining a critical element of our foreign policy and how we work overseas. And as I said in the beginning, this has been an untold story. So thank you. General, Thank you, Ambassador, very much. Appreciate your time.

Amb. Spratlen: [00:23:51] Well, thank you very much for this opportunity. I would just like to say that working with you, General, was a great pleasure while I was in Uzbekistan. I'm a great admirer of your amazing staff, and I had tremendous support from our military cooperation staff and our defense attache when I was in Uzbekistan.

Gen. Boyles: [00:24:08] And I'll just add that from my chair. I saw this country starting to enter into the world stage, but Ambassador Spratlen had a big part to do with that because she was there when that transition occurred and she brought the US along with Uzbekistan and President Mirziyoyev to talk to us. And so, Ambassador, thank you for all your work in making us part of this transition to bring Uzbekistan into the world stage.

Amb. McCarthy: [00:24:37] This has been a new episode in the series, The General and the Ambassador. Thank you for listening. Our series is a production of the American Academy of Diplomacy. This podcast was produced with the support of the Fletcher School Global Master of Arts Program. The program allows career executives to earn an executive master of leadership in global affairs in one year without leaving the workforce. You can find our podcasts on all major podcast sites as well as on our website. GeneralAmbassador.Org. We welcome all input and suggestions and you can email us directly at General.Ambassador.podcast@gmail.com. Thank you for listening.